Chat of Smoke and Bone

I started this book in a blur of wonderfulness, stalled out when the characters fell in love and got all schmoopy, and swung back in when everything became worth it.  So worth it.  So, before we get to the spoilery part way down below, let me just say that I loved this book and cannot WAIT to read the next one.  To the point where I'm reading the preview chapters of Days of Blood and Starlight while I wait for the library to tell me my reserve has come in.  Wait anxiously.

Okay, that is the general part.  Now comes the part where my friend Lianna and I had a great chat about this book and how we felt about it.  I asked if she wanted to do a joint review, where we each publish half on our blog.  Her blog is really more of a writing journal, though, so she suggested I keep the whole thing for myself.  Which makes me feel greedy, but here we are!

Major, huge, enormous spoilers below; this post is really only for people who have read the book, or who are never, ever going to read the book but for some reason really want to read about it.  Which, they exist; I love spoilery reviews of books that I'm never going to read.  Go figure.

And thank you, Lianna, for letting me share this; I think it captures a lot of interesting angles on both the best and weakest parts of this wonderful, wonderful book that you should totally read before you come back and read this review full of spoilers which start.....NOW!

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Lianna:  First of all, I have to share that every time I mention this book to my husband, he thinks it's called "My Daughter is Smokin' a Bone".

So, I FLEW through the first half of this book in a day, then slowed down a lot and took three more days to finish it. I felt that the action started getting bogged down by the love story, and that a lot of things that I loved about it-- the careful balancing of Karou's two worlds, the hallucinatory wonder of Brimstone's shop, Karou's art education, the acerbically witty best friend-- were kind of shoved aside to make room for the Instalove.

I wasn't that annoyed by the Instalove itself, partly because you had forewarned me about it, and partly because I could tell from the hints that this was a reincarnation story of sorts. So, it's Instalove based on a prior relationship. I'm basically cool with that. But THEN, when the story flashes back to Akiva and Madrigal/Karou falling in love, it's STILL Instalove! That's the point at which the love story began to annoy me to the degree of souring my opinion of the book as a whole.

Don't get me wrong-- I'm totally reading the second book. I adored the world-building, and the cliff-hanger ending hooked me good. I also appreciate that she didn't drag out the mysteries of "why was Karou was raised by demons?" and "wtf is the deal with Brimstone and the teeth?" any longer than made sense. I respect the hell out of an author who's not afraid to give answers in the first book of a trilogy.

But the love story thing has been rattling around in my mind. Here are the questions I've been pondering as I fold laundry:

1) Why does Instalove not do it for me, Romance-wise?

2) Why is Instalove so appealing to teenage readers?

3) What is the role my own personal taste in men plays in the way I judge Romance plots?

4) Is there a way to do the "our love will save the world!" plot that isn't eye-rolling to anyone over the age of 19?

And my thoughts about these questions:

1) As I said in my comments on your Instalove blog post, I am a Pride and Prejudice fan. I am just more interested in and excited by love stories in which the connection and attraction build slowly.

2) If my teenage self were reading DoSaB, she'd be alllllll over it. Mostly for the style (Blue hair! Tattoos! Prague! Chimaera demons!), but also for the love story. I think it has something to do with the intense adolescent longing for unconditional acceptance, coupled with a certain immaturity in regards to personal decisions. If your love is fated and eternal, then you don't have to struggle to catch the boy's attention or work to get to know him. No matter what you do, he'll still love you, and no matter what bad choices you make, you'll still wind up together in the end. 

As an adult, this just doesn't appeal to me, maybe because Fated, Eternal Love now seems like such a slim thread to hang a real relationship on. If love is born so effortlessly, isn't it also more likely to die without a struggle?

3) If I'm honest, I think part of my problem here is that I'm just not feelin' Akiva. He's a brooding, melodramatic sourpuss, and I do not believe I would be attracted to him if I met him in real life. I just don't see what he has going for him beyond being otherwordly-gorgeous. This is my problem with a lot of Instalove heroes; the Fated Love starts to feel lazy to me, like if the guy is really hot and really into the heroine, he doesn't need any other redeeming qualities (except perhaps a stalker-ish overprotectiveness that I am proud to say I have NEVER found appealing). 

It's not that I'm immune to male beauty, but if a guy is really that jaw-droppingly perfect (a la Edward Cullen/Christian Gray), I've always been more inclined to look at him as an amazing piece of art, rather than as a potential romantic partner. Call me reactionary, but I prefer to be prettier than the men I sleep with. And I am no jaw-dropping piece of art.

I like my romantic interests more on the beta side. I'd rather break through the facade of the wisecracking sidekick than the brooding hero.

4) The Instalove device often goes hand-in-hand with the "only our super-special love can save the world" trope. I don't like how smug this usually comes off, implying as it does that the lead couple's superiority over everyone else in their world-- not only are they more attractive than everyone else, they are nobler, wiser, braver, and the only ones capable of seeing what really matters, dammit! It rankles. 

I saw some of this in DoSaB. For example, the whole Chiro thing went over the line into Mary Sue territory for me. Chiro is ugly! And she envies Madgrial for being sooooo amazingly beautiful! But Madrigal is so awesomely above it all she doesn't even realize that she is pretty and Chiro is ugly! And so Chiro betrays her, 'cause ugly people are petty like that. Bitch, please.

Have you read Warm Bodies? I just saw the movie this weekend, and I've been trying to work out why the "teen love saves the world" thing did not bug me in that story. I think it was the sense that it wasn't so much THEIR love specifically that was curing the zombie plague as it was love in general. If it hadn't been R's resurrected ability to love that started it, it could have been someone else's. Also, while R feels Instalove, it's not the Fated, Eternal kind-- more like, "underneath my zombie-ness I am still a typically romantic and horny teenage boy, and you are cute and in immediate need of saving". And Julie feels no Instalove whatsoever; it is a completely one-sided thing for quite a while.

And those are my feelingful feelings.

Et vous? 

 

Sharon: This exactly echoes my reaction down to the details.  I flew through the first half and then, when the love story started, slowed down considerably--to the point where I'm pretty sure it's been weeks.  I did not figure out the reincarnation thing before it happened--well, when Akiva realized he knew who Karou was, I figured she was probably his dead girlfriend, but that's not much in advance.  Once I got that, I was able to let it go, though it still bugged me a bit--mostly it just bugged me that the story was ABOUT their love, instead of about Karou trying to find her family and solve her mysteries.

The Instalove between Madrigal and Akiva didn't bother me as much, because their first moment together--on the battlefield--was really more of a sensible moment in context.  They had a moment of shared humanity, and there was some intensity and attraction there, and it stayed with them as a snapshot memory.  It meant more to Akiva because he was already kind of disillusioned, and because the seraphim have more inhuman/irrational negatives about the chimaera.  

But the fact that they threw themselves at each other so aggressively was a bit of a problem.  At that point, though, I just wanted the Madrigal backstory to go fast so I could get back to Karou, so my disbelief was sacrificed to speed reading. 

Aside: I tell Adam stories at bedtime--Mike reads, I tell.  No repeats, so I often end up bowdlerizing whatever I'm reading for him.  He's been dying to hear what happens next in this book, and I can't figure out how to explain flashbacks, never mind reincarnation! 

Re:

1) Why does Instalove not do it for me, Romance-wise?

2) Why is Instalove so appealing to teenage readers?

3) What is the role my own personal taste in men plays in the way I judge Romance plots?

4) Is there a way to do the "our love will save the world!" plot that isn't eye-rolling to anyone over the age of 19?

1) is easy--I've never been someone who was all about the physical stuff.  I mean, instalove is clearly based heavily in physical attraction--at least, a reader's sympathy for it is.  And, forgive the TMI and the high-handedness, but I've never been someone who's so swept up in the FEELINGS of the moment/body that I have not known where I was.  So it just doesn't hook up with my experience in general, and I suspect that for most people, the further you get from adolescence the less familiar that sense of "lust/not thinking clearly" becomes.

2) goes the same way--this is something we discussed in my library science YA class.  Basically, young adults are dealing with all this stuff for the first time, and so it's way more confusing and intense to them.  It feels more REAL, because they haven't felt all excited about someone and had it mean absolutely nothing a million times the way us grown ups have.

3) I agree that Akiva did almost nothing for me, and standard hotness does pretty much nothing for me.  I mean, I'll look at the guys in the movies as much as the next lady, but what I'm going to pine for is the personality, and Akiva is definitely thin on that.  Another reason the book took a dive when he showed up.  

4) Three words: His Dark Materials.  Literally the only books I can think of that really gave me a reason why two people could actually matter that much without being the Chosen Ones (which is ludicrous), and why their relationship would matter.  I mean, I guess Adam and Eve, but they were the whole world at the time, so not a fair comparison.  For examples of this done poorly--oh, I could go on forever.  I actually love the ending of The Amber Spyglass just because that whole relationship turned that expectation--our love will Change the World!--on its head.

Okay, I'm going to bed now and haven't even finished the book; more tomorrow though.  And I'm already waiting for Days of Blood and Starlight (which title already has a dozen permutations in my head involving words like Nights of Dust and Diamonds and is starting to sound like a romance novel) from the library!

Lianna:  I guessed the reincarnation because of the way Karou kept seeing glimpses of an "other" Akiva-- smiling, with less tattoos, etc.

And yes about the book becoming about their love instead of their love being one of the things happening in the book. It's like the love story ate the rest of the book.

Sharon: I think the problem was not that the story was structured around their love story--because if you have a story about two people who defy their nations to bridge a gap of war, there are only so many kinds of bonds you can make that about.  It's that all the MEANING of the story was tied up in their love.  I definitely think it's partly a factor of being an adult that you really understand all the many variations of motivation that exist in the world.  Honestly, the relationship between Karou/Madrigal and Brimstone seemed way more compelling to me than the relationship with Akiva, but of course, the Akiva one is going to change the world.  I love the idea of Brimstone "using" her like that, and how morally ambiguous that is, but also how good and right. 

But now I'm rewriting the book, and that's not fair.  You can't judge a book on what it could have tried to be.  

I'm actually hoping the next one might be a bit more interesting, because Akiva is clearly kind of cranky and grim, but his fluctuation in his feelings about the seraphim and chimera vary so widely that I'm really hoping his trajectory gets more interesting.  But I'm also hoping that we stay with Karou a lot more.  

Akiva is now firmly in Gale territory with me--I was fine with him till he got all warlike, and then he lost me.  And he only regrets it now that she's back--boo hoo.  I kind of wish he'd turn out to be the bad guy, or a character who has to die to be redeemed.  Not likely in a romance, though.

I assume it's a trilogy.  I hope the next one doesn't fall prey to middle book syndrome!

Lianna: I'm looking forward to watching Karou get her vengeance on.

I've realized I'm doing quite a bit of complaining about a book I really enjoyed. Allow me to touch upon the Awesome again: Daughter of Smoke and Bone is smarter and grittier than most YA Fantasy I've read. Karou successfully walks the heroine line between kickass and vulnerable, and I loved the world building so much I want to jet over to Prague and wander the meandering back alleys until I come across the entrance to Brimstone's shop. And that's pretty much the highest compliment I can bestow on a work of Fantasy: it makes me wish that it was all real.

King Hereafter, Part 2, Part 2

Aarti and I continue our Epic Co-Review of King Hereafter, by Dorothy Dunnett, with this review of Part 2 of the book.  Part 1 of the review of Part 2 of the book is at Aarti's site; below is the second half of our conversation.

Sharon: One other thing I was asking myself about Rognvald--and this might not be a useful question to answer, but I think it’s interesting to ponder--is how much of his rage and frustration is envy (fraternal,  political) and how much is jealousy (romantic).

Aarti: Agreed.  I wonder how much, too, was in retaliation to the thwarting of both those things when Thorfinn had him publicly flogged.

Sharon: I think this is the part where I have to admit that my positive feelings about this book drive much closer to “appreciation” than “enjoyment.”  There’s just SO MUCH that I can’t follow, and it feels like I go for long periods of time reading about instances that are probably meaningful but not to me, or listening to discussions of people and politics that I just don’t get, because I don’t know the names or remember the relationships of the places.  I had Duftah and Malduin mixed up for a good chunk of time, which left me pretty lost.  

In fact, I’m finding it kind of hard to dive into the third part.  As history, it’s thorough and engaging, but as a novel, I feel like it doesn’t use a lot of the tools that literature usually uses to hit me where I live.  You know?

Aarti: Oh, gosh, yes!  It is hard to read this book and separate Dorothy Dunnett’s writing and research from the characters that are in it for me - which I think is true of all her books.  I too was lost for much of the book (just wait till you get closer to the end when ALL OF THESE PEOPLE come out of the woodwork and you are thinking, “Er, I feel like you are important, but I don’t remember why”).  I mean, I don’t even remember who Duftah is, to be perfectly honest.  And I still made it through the book ok, though I kept wishing that there were Cliff’s Notes.  I feel like often Dunnett thought that I could understand all the different levels of intrigue, the subtle hints and the veiled insults and challenges, and I really could not.  Did you feel the same?  I was always so relieved when Groa or someone would explain to another person (usually referred to as dim-witted or stupid) why the situation was so tense or what was wrong, etc.  I would have been that dim-witted person!

Sharon: This is an excellent description of how I feel about the whole book.  It reminds me of a mystery where the detective needs a sidekick to ask questions that we, the viewer/reader, would be asking.  Except this book provides that only about 10% of the time.  This must be getting in the way of my enjoyment more than yours; I’m finding that there are whole chunks of the book that seem to have no meaning to me because of this, and that I often feel like I might as well skip them.

I strongly suspect that if I was better at skimming I could take this book on more directly.  The fact is, I’m missing 60% of what’s there, but I’m TERRIBLE at skimming--I forget to do it, I get worried I missed the important stuff, I get confused--so I’m investing just as much of my attention in that 60% as I am in the 40% that’s clean and sharp and reachable to me.  It throws off the balance of the book.

Aarti: I can understand why you are struggling to dive into Part 3, though I do think it starts out with lighter humor, though again, I was lost as to WHY Thorfinn was doing what he was doing.  It was still entertaining to read, though!  Please don’t feel like you have to finish the book because of me, though!

Sharon: I’m going to give it one more big push as soon as I finish my book club selection for the month.  I really do want to  know what happens; I think this is a book that I might love if I was just able to skim the parts that I can’t follow.  I’m glad you’re really enjoying it!
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I have promised to try and so I shall.  I make no further promises, though!

King Hereafter: A Joint Review

I'm very excited to be reviewing Dorothy Dunnett's King Hereafter with Aarti at BookLust.  I feel this way partly because I love Aarti's blog, and partly because the book was full of words and content and plot, and I was grateful for a little hand holding.  It's not the story of Shakespeare's Macbeth, but rather a take on the historical figure on whom Macbeth is based.  I understand this to be a matter of some speculation, but I know much less about the subject than Dorothy Dunnett (you do, too, I guarantee it), so I'm going to take her at her word.

This is a long book, so we're going through it party by part.  This is the first half of our conversation about Part I; you can find the second half at her site, here.  Part II coming soon!

I'm in blue and Aarti's in red.  So, without further ado...

I have so many things I want to talk about in this book!  There’s the world she’s building, the writing style, and the politics.  But I think the first thing I wanted to mention was just how much the fact of the book being tied to Macbeth influenced my expectations and experience.  I find that in books that are based on other stories I know, I’m always looking for the characters I know about, and looking for how the stories fit together.  So I kept trying to figure out who was Banquo.  

But of course, this isn’t based on the Shakespeare, but rather on the history that he was writing from.  And it’s a different story from that one in almost every way.  Did you find the Macbeth tie in distracting, or that it set up expectations?  Or do you think it added anything to your experience of the story so far?

At the risk of sounding very uncultured, I’d have to say I don’t think Shakespeare’s Macbeth has tied in much at all for me because I hardly remember it at all!  I read it in high school and then never again, and all I can say is that Groa is nothing like Lady Macbeth so far :-)  I do think that Groa’s son, though, might be seen as a slight nod to the witches of Macbeth as he seems to have the ability to predict the future.  But I like that he is so fond of Thorfinn and just states what he thinks are facts, and then those facts just happen to turn everyone else’s world upside down.

I’ve read Dunnett’s other historical fiction books - The Lymond Chronicles and The House of Niccolo and it’s interesting how these ideas of fate and destiny are present in all of them.  In a way, if you know the story of Macbeth, you know how this story will end, but what’s so interesting is that Thorfinn himself seems to know how the story will end, but he’s still going out there doing his best every day to make the most of it.  I love that.

I also just love Thorfinn and Groa.  I was worried that I wouldn’t like Groa because I don’t love most of the women Dunnett writes.  But Groa is great and I am so looking forward to seeing her grow.  And Thorfinn - he’s so inscrutable and hard to read.  So many times through this part of the book, I feel like he was having conversations with people on multiple levels, and I really only understood the most obvious one!  Did you get that feeling?

Through most of the first section I felt the absence of female characters.  There’s Godiva, who is absolutely amazing and I want to be her, but she’s really the only one till Groa comes in.  I love her, too, and I felt like I understood her better than any other character, by far.  She starts out sort of on the outside of everything Thorfinn is doing, which is hugely frustrating (because she’s so great and you want her to be in the middle of the action), but it’s frustrating for her, too.  I think that makes it even more satisfying when she does get to play an active role, and when she and Thorfinn finally become close.

As for Macbeth, the story is already so far from the Shakespeare that the parallels are more interesting than informative.  I mean, killing Duncan was just a selfish, dirty move in the play, but here, it’s the only thing that made sense.  A lot of my enjoyment of the story comes, I think, from getting a feel for the rules these people are playing by--how do you predict what all the other players are going to do, and what does loyalty look like?  The latter is a huge deal here, because there are friends and there are allies, and they’re related but not entirely overlapping.  Thorfinn’s relationship with Eachmarchach is a great example--they’re clearly true personal friends, but on both their sides there’s an element of cultivating the political allies they need.  (It reminds me of all my friends who say they hate networking; all social activity is a little bit networking!)

Let me ask you this, though; how much of the outline of background events did you actually follow?  I feel like I recognize about half the names that are used in a lot of the descriptions of things that are going on, and can pinpoint and remember the details about even fewer.  There’s always another uncle or step-cousin or half-brother, and so many are named Thor and Finn!  (A character named Finn appeared in the other book I’m reading and I had an instinctive reaction of trying to figure out whose cousin he was before I realized that he worked at Google and had probably never been a-viking.)  I’m fascinated that the story can be so engaging when the “lens” is set so wide, and so much of it is taken up with broad descriptions of political maneuvers and war craft.

Head on over to Aarti's site for the second half of the review.  And stay tuned for more of Thorfinn, Groa, and all the other guys named Thor!